Reading your first paragraph and skimming the rest I couldn't agree more. The Army can increase this to 100% with no problem whatsoever if needed. The future of Army aviation depends on retaining the pilots in whom it invests so much. It just seems like a bait and switch to have me sign a conditional release and paperwork that says 6 years and then say, oh by the way we meant 10. Over the last few years, Army senior leaders took steps to address the pilot retention challenge. My family got to live in England for three years and it was fantastic! The Palace Chase program exists specifically for Active Duty pilots willing to make an early commitment to continue their service in the Guard or Reserve. If you, the seasoned army aviator, were still a senior in college and told that to become an aviator you had to sign for a 10-year + flight school ADSO, would you do it? If he didnt go to AFIT, hed have to move for a second assignment anyway. Im not young, but Ive aged well and am not ready to resign myself to a desk. Once Stan finally gets qualified in his aircraft, hed get seasoning orders with his Guard or Reserve unit. The service obligation begins on the date an officer attains an aeronautical rating of Army aviator or is removed from attendance, whichever is earlier.. Wonder if you can get out early if NOT making CW3 or must you hang around. Very true. And finally, the Army will likely find that it should increase flight pay beyond what has already been offered. This call to action comes amid challenging times, with many civilian airlines running on reduced flight schedules, said Chief Warrant Officer 5 Jon Koziol, the Armys command chief warrant officer to the aviation branch, during a Facebook livestream in June. Unfortunately, it probably wont exist long enough for it to achieve the desired effects. Whether you elect the Branch of Choice or Graduate School Program, there are slight differences to your commitment for those who branch Aviation. Although its easy to feel stuck on Active Duty, there are also options for getting out early. While a longer ADSO may help from looking solely at the numbers, it won't be effective at retaining quality talent. Hopefully with the new 10 year ADSO aviation will assess more senior NCOs. People tend to forget, aportion of the street2seat WOFT applicants areprior service. What are the chances of getting picked up. Active component warrant officer strength, as of October 1, 2018 (Source: Report to Congressional Armed Services Committees on Initiatives for Mitigating Military Pilot Shortfalls), Two main variables affect pilot strength in the military: production and retention. The big gotcha of the Active Duty pilot career path is that on the day you earn your wings, you also get hit with a 10-year Active Duty Service Commitment (ADSC). Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Aviation has always been a highly desirable branch, and gaining a slot has been a matter of performance or differentiation from peers (whether OML or via a competitive application process). One can just see all those 2LTs cringing when the folks at the bottom of each class are forced to take Aviation during the branching ceremony. It wasn't approved. Hah oh good catch. The US Army is missing the boat by not letting seasoned professionals into flight school. It's not exactly friendly but this is the military. No additional time added with a BRADSO. Yeah a lot of questions for those of us that came into this planning on a 6 year deal. Having been out of college for at least 5 years at the start of UPT, its more likely that Stan will have a spouse and kidsmaking the very busy year at UPT even more challenging. Commercial airlines offer higher salaries, more career control, and stabilization. Yes, most of us eventually plan to move on to the airlines. I assume if you're not finished withflight school by 30 Sep 20, your commitment is just as long as the Air Force if not a little bit longer. Privacy Policy. The change comes as the cost and requirements for aircraft have increased across the board, Kearns said. If you, the seasoned army aviator, were still a senior in college and told that to become an aviator you had to sign for a 10-year + flight school ADSO, would you do it? With 21 years as a Soldier and 10 years reviewing cost estimates for all equipment tests, Mr. Ysa Garza said everyone always has to be safety conscience in his role as an additional duty safety . I still don't understand how this ADSO extension is going to fix any of those issues, though it may act as a "gotcha" to get people "over the hill" in their Army career where they wouldn't feel like a transition at 10-12 years of service would be a good decision. It's not about harassments, it how things get done. It involves no effort to understand the underlying factors that cause Army pilots to depart and is nothing more than a surface-level solution to a fundamental problem. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); The articles and other content which appear on the Modern War Institute website are unofficial expressions of opinion. I dont agree with this decision at all but mean forcing people to stay helps retention because you know, they are forcing you. I ended up discovering that Stan was most worried about frequent moves and long deployments stressing his family during an Active Duty flying career. The severity of the decline in recruiting will be unknown until the recruiting data comes in from the first affected class of cadets and warrant officer candidates. Exit surveys are important, but those only capture the opinion of those whom the Army has already lost. If you want military aviation to be a part of your life for more than 10 years, possibly even 20+ years, you should pursue any path that will get you there! This puts you right at your commissioning ADSO plus the three-year CSP ADSO. This mindset is far from universal, but its prevalent enough that the Academy actually had pilot slots go unfilled a few years ago! Rather, the Modern War Institute provides a forum for professionals to share opinions and cultivate ideas. I wonder how this will effect street to seat recruitment for WOFT. Excerpt from your enlistment contract which every one of has (or will, if selected) signed. Currently in common core here and we still don't know if it applies or not. It also left plenty of time to have a normal life and spend time with one's family. Like it or not, you need to accrue that experience one way or another, First, as we just mentioned, you only have to worry about one job flying one aircraft for Uncle Sam. I'm about to retire from the Air Force as an engineer, O-4, mostly dest and staff job. This is doubly applicable for aviation formations. During this time, Stan would at least need to obtain his Private Pilot Certificate. We should approach our congressmen to change the re-entry rules to allow ATPs. So 6 years from ALE graduation day? The report focused on the unmet demand for pilots in the commercial aviation sector that has attracted military pilots. Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy recently signed a memorandum that increased the ADSOor active duty service obligationfor Army pilots. Stans family has still moved several timesboth as an engineer and as a pilot. The consensus seems to be that if you graduate flight school in FY 2021, you accrue the 10 year ADSO. Finally, the thing not being said about sending senior NCOs to flight school is the socialization at the company level piece. At the same time it could drive a shortage of Aviation Officers, but if they're going to leave the Army anyway. (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in 47.) Im a senior NCO with two decades of experience and proven loyalty to the nation and her army. There's a regulation whose number I can't recall at the moment that specifies when it starts. The Department of Defense released a report in July 2019 that laid out the challenges the military faces with pilot retention and included plans of action from each branch. If ATPs are granted, I'll be the first one to sign up as a warrant officer. Yes, , and its important to get there as quickly as you can because, . This means keeping up with at least two airplanes and dealing with two potentially very demanding bosses. There are some other prerequisites they have to meet. I'd love to see credit for the photo. You get to the airlines sooner, and you spend more years at a major airline. Not sure. The Army will continue to honor all GRADSO contracts for officers from YGs 2006-2013. . I remember similar drama during my Fourth Class (freshman) year at the USAF Academy as we were forced to sign a paper accepting a similar ADSC increase in case of getting an Air Force pilot slot. This could be a few weeks TDY, or a multi-month move. I like the idea of the Ultimate career path because it still allows you to earn a 20-year military retirement.. My talk with Stan covered all of these, so my next question was, How long were you planning on being involved in military aviation then? I at least expected a survey or something from the Aviation branch to ask why I was leaving, but again, nothing. Aviation: dude it's a 10 year ADSO, so I hope you like aviation, cuz you ain't going anywhere else. I would have stayed in for another 10+ years if I had the opportunity to revert to Warrant Officer and fly more, but that opportunity doesn't exist. First, as we just mentioned, you only have to worry about one job flying one aircraft for Uncle Sam. It's kinda like a Yelp! The ARMY should allow ATP for all prior service men willing and fit to fly. A large number of aviation personnel have a lot of passion and dedication to the mission, but that can only last so long when your life consists ONLY of the mission. The best pilots I have served with were prior NCOs. Thank you for your time and have a great rest of your day! There will always be external factors and organizations that draw quality talent from the Army, but the Army should have more flexibility in their ability and measures to retain quality talent. Well, when you have a system that initially punishes critical thinking, then requires it later on down the line, you're creating your own problem that ends up causing its own problems. People are tired. On this career path, Stan is most likely to leave young kids at home with his spouse while he deploys. Due to the flight school ADSO and timeline, you will be on active duty for about 7 years in order to fulfill the obligations incurred through flight training. For example, its the only service that allows people to go into flight training with only a high school degree. One of the reasons for the increased ADSO was related to demand from the private sector for pilots. Army Aviation Leaders should. Increasing the ADSO, though, does not require datait is guaranteed to increase retention. Starting in October, all personnel selected to attend the Army's initial entry aviation training will incur an ADSO of ten years upon graduation from flight traininga dramatic increase from the previous six-year commitment. The pilot shortage is not in applicants it is in mid career. This eventually allows you to retire a full four years earlier than any other military aviator. Posted on . Sometimes that's necessary, but there's got to be some balance. This used to be unheard of. That 10 year obligation doesn't start until you finish flight school. Not saying I would want the out but, contractually wouldnt there be something to be said for Breach of contract here? Stan was worried about his Active Duty career path (Option #2) because it would ensure several years of moves and deployments. To create a mission-ready helicopter pilot, the Army invests between six hundred thousand and one million dollars during approximately one year of flight training. A chief warrant officer 3 with eight years of service earns $5093.70 per month, whereas a captain with eight years of service earns $6435.00 per month, a difference of $1,341.30 in favor of non-Army pilots. The extended ADSO is intended to increase Army pilots retention in the future. However, on the surface, we see that Stans plan is likely to get a pilot to the airlines a couple of years before his peers. It didn't help that the CSA took advantage of his own program by taking private military flight lessons and was awarded his pilots wings while a 4 star. For most, Top Gun played at least a little bit of a role. They just can't have over 8 years TIS without a waiver. Would they do it with a 12-year commitment? Must be a volunteer just like airborne. There are more than enough fully qualified CAREER ENLISTED personnel from the 5 services, waiting in the wings, so to speak, to apply for the WOFT program. Expand The 10 year ADSO will actually prevent all but the youngest street-to-seaters from making the jump, I graduated flight school right after turning 24 and the AF won't take you after 33 without a waiver. That's the Army's ace in the hole. Ideally, you should enlist with one of those units as soon as youre old enough and serve part-time while you complete college. The upper age limit to enter flight training is established in law and requires Congressional action. We want as many applications as we can, so if anybody has any questions, be sure to contact that warrant officer recruiting team, Kearns said. The Army has more career Enlisted willing to cross over for the opportunity in being an Officer and increasein pay for the family, with or without a degree. Apache course end? Another anecdote, when I was deployed there was a desire to have experienced cockpits on higher risk/higher visibility missions usually two pilots with 1000+ total hours. Did ROTC, then Aviation, allegedly 6 years upon completion of flight training. But ifonline discussions are any indication, this ADSO will turn away a lot of prospective pilots. The US Army recently changed its aviation Active Duty Service Obligation from 8 to 10 years and created an absolute uproar. More than likely, the aviations slots will be filled by personnel lower on the OML. Believe it or not, more than a few fellow senior non rated Army officers are jealous when it comes to flight pay. Those serving on active duty for less than 10 years shall serve in the Ready Reserve as follows: For active duty service less than 8 years, 6 years in the Ready Reserve. Perhaps it's just for RLOs but don't count on that. So the recruitment piece has not historically been our challenge, it has been capacity and production. But what if the new ADSO invalidates this assumption? This can exceed a 6 year obligation. I am planning on staying in anyway but that 10 year also looms big if everything sucks and you hate it. I'm retiring in two years and it's not even to go to the airlines! This means a steady paycheck and decent home life, except that as the newest pilot in the unit Stan is at the top of the list to deploy if the squadron gets sent downrange. Regarding the future Army Commissioned Lts in wishing to branch aviation, that will be an issue next year. However, after spending a few more minutes thinking about how these career paths might compare, I decided Stans idea might not be as advantageous after all. I dont know if there are enough of us to completely change policy, but you need pilots and Im willing to fly for whatever period is demanded of me Im not the only one. They wont, we already dont get the congressionally authorized flight pay. Thereafter, the ADSO incurred pursuant to the Army Branch for ADSO Program will be served concurrently with any other non-statutory ADSOs. It seems the 10 year ADSO is now official. | Army Organic Industrial Base Modernization Implementation Plan, Army Civil Works announces publication of a formal review for Nationwide Permit 12, Army Extends Timeline for Postpartum Soldiers to Meet Body Fat Standards, U.S. Army updates promotion and retention policies in response to COVID-19. 10 is nuts. Such changes may affect my status, Why or why not? The earlier you can, INTERVIEW PREP PACKAGE (eCourse + 1-on-1's), 1 HOUR INTERVIEW PREP ADD-ON (Add'l 1-on-1 Coaching for eCourse & Package Customers), 1 HOUR APP REVIEW ADD-ON (Add'l 1-on-1 Coaching for eCourse & Package Customers), https://www.dvidshub.net/image/3982524/f-35-sky, https://www.dvidshub.net/image/4798866/f-22-europe, https://www.dvidshub.net/image/5765915/b-2-and-boom, https://www.dvidshub.net/image/491088/deployed-civil-engineers, https://www.dvidshub.net/image/6100141/c-17-air-drop, The Ultimate Guide to Earning a Pilot Slot in Air Force ROTC, Part 1, As Stan would be finishing up his 5-year ADSC, hed need to be shopping for Guard and Reserve UPT board announcements on. Im a career guy so I dont mind but initially it can be daunting. The B-2 about to get fuel: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/5765915/b-2-and-boom. I wish thiswasa little more clear. The Army may producean averageof 1200 Warrant Officers pilots annuallyincluding the Guard and Reserves. army aviation 10 year adso. It does have the potential to get him to the airlines more quickly, and hed do all of his military flying in the Guard or Reserve (with Quality of Life far superior to Active Duty, in most cases). I got out because I wanted to fly, but kept getting stuck in staff positions where I either couldn't fly, or had limited opportunities to fly. The 10-year service obligation is the result of a numbers-related calculus related to Army manning and will not address the problems that make Aviators leave. If you graduate after 1 Oct 2020 expect a 10 year service obligation. Im in shape, arguably intelligent, and have at least ten good years of service left in me yet an age waiver will not be considered for aviation for either OCS or WOCS. If you go to a civilian school and the Army fully or partially funds that course, you will incur 3 times the school time for ADSO if the course is over 60 days. Im would bank on that being the flight school start date officially. They can surely find that amount in the Enlisted ranks if WARRANTED. U.S. Army UH-60L Black Hawk helicopters from the New Jersey National Guards 1-150th Assault Helicopter Battalion sit on the flight line during sunset at the Army Aviation Support Facility, Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst, N.J., Nov. 8, 2018. Although 10 years of Active Duty feels like a long time, its not that much longer than the alternatives. Although neither has been officially announced, the Army is rumored to be considering two proposals: a provisional status for warrant officer candidates until they graduate flight school and an increase in time-in-grade to make chief warrant officer 2. It is extremely frustrating to see some officers and senior NCOS make such short sighted decisions to solve complex issues without finding the cause, and not conducting any type of research. There are also a lot of great flying opportunities that you can only do on Active Duty. With survey data in hand, the Army will likely find that it needs to continue to invest in its aircraft fleet to ensure pilots receive adequate flight hours to remain proficient. Why or why not? Even during a deployment when demand for flight hours was high, the more senior Warrant Officers were flying double that of the more junior pilots. and our Were you part of the 6 year or 10 year ADSO group? Anything and everything related to or affecting US Army Aviation. We are always either training or deploying. That's my issue (age waiver). (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in '47.) Serving on Active Duty is also the only way to get an overseas flying assignment. 10 is a big commitment either way. We are very, very interested in seeing more applications, he added. For more information, please see our The Army should be able to meet their quota through CAREER Enlisted personnel ONLY if they must. This means that a BCT that goes to a CTC once a year always demands CAB support. Since classes are generally pretty well mixed with people with respect to when they commissioned, the first couple of classes must have been a mix of people on the old 6 and the new 10. Whatever path you end up taking, please consider taking a UPT slot when offered. Aviation Bonus (AvB) Program. With a 10 year ADSO and an 8 year max time in service requirementit significantly reduces the in house pool as well. The Army, by contrast, could only say that Army senior leaders recognize there are growing civilian opportunities for Army pilots. Back then the Army had a hard-on for pilots. If you accept tuition assistance, 2 year ADSO. Stans Active Duty pilot peers would have spent 8-11 years since graduating from college flying for the military full time. This doesnt exactly seem legally right. Not difficult for the Army in finding 400 additional career minded E-3 to E-7 for the WOFT program if need be. You don't have to have a college degree to apply or be accepted into it, he said. Branch of Choice: Your BRADSO obligation runs consecutively with your flight school ADSO and your commitment will run out to about the 10 year point. As a Guard or, There are also a lot of great flying opportunities that you can only do on Active Duty. This may be because the Army has not undertaken the same in-depth approach to understanding this problem as other services. If pilots today are so unhappy that they are leaving in numbers higher than expected, why would prospective pilots accept a much longer service obligation for that same experience? It was not a wild decision to take a small hit to accession to make sure you have mid careerists. Well also see some advantages of Active Duty and some options for cutting your time there short. Fiscal Yr 2021 starts Oct 1, 2020. junglerekon 2 yr. ago The TIG start isn't official yet. His answer was, Of course not. The congressional study on pilot retention noted, One of the most important variables in meeting pilot requirements is the retention rate, as this is used to estimate what level of new pilot production is needed.. Lets assume though that Stan can get hired by a unit, and is scheduled to start UPT as soon as his regular ADSC is up. The report included a figure showing that the Army faced a shortfall of 330 warrant officerswho comprise 70 percent of the Armys pilot ranks. Up to $15K per year payable to officers drawing Optometrist Regular Special Pay who have completed initial ADSO for education and training, and who execute a 12-month active duty service agreement. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. I don't know too many that would care to be told to mop the floor of the pilot's office, fill the refrigerator, go help wash the aircraft the things that junior warrants typically do when they are new to a unit out of flight school. At first, his idea sounded reasonable to me. ADDED QUESTION: What, in your opinion, is the average view of Army Aviation within the perspectives of your peers? Its creepy; Im scared Ill go to get out and theyll be like nah man you have 3 more years. How can I show that my BrADSO wasnt taken? That hesitation will open up slots for others further down an OML or with less stellar accomplishments, potentially creating other issues related to performance or aptitude. Aviation continuation pay 2 . Full disclosure, I was a street to seat Warrant that served for 24 years. Thats at least 2 moves and several TDYs in the space of about 2 years. Before Army Secretary Ryan D. McCarthy signed a memorandum for the change in June, the Army had bumped up its incentive pay for aviators in January. , I worry that Ive done people a disservice by making the Active Duty pilot career path seem too unattractive. review for a restaurant or somethingonly those who either #LOVEDIT or #hatedit:( ever write reviews, so it's hard to know what the experience is like for the average man. For example, if there are 100 ROTC Aviation slots, only 20 can . When I got selected it was a 60/40 split between street to seat and prior. If you havent already read Part, Part 1: Air Force Reserve Officers Training Corps (AFROTC) Table of Contents What is AFROTC? Additionally, Cadets awarded Aviation Branch cannot participate in the Post of Choice program due to the inability to project requirements beyond flight school. Before people get started on the, this is the way the Army goes and all that, I know. The Army may producean averageof 1200 Warrant Officers pilots annuallyincluding the Guard and Reserves. I just want to stop leaving my family all the time! Graduate School Program: Only 20% of the. While there are some top performers that will elect to pursue the branch because they plan on a career from the beginning, there are far more that may be hesitant or undecided about committing to a decade of their professional lives to a niche field when they're only 22 or 23 if they aren't already passionate about everything aviation. USMA graduates accepting an appointment in the Regular Army incur a 5-year ADSO (10 USC 4348). At least in the early 2000s, there was the ARFORGEN cycle. These could range from 6 months to two years, depending on the type of aircraft hes flying. Especially since TN he Chinooks are B Co 2-104 from CTARNG and I was the CDR and PC sitting in the left of the Chinook in the foreground on the left. You can post now and register later. A RAND Corporation studyfound that even $35,000 a year would not be sufficient to stem the flow of Air Force pilotsthe study concluded a bonus cap between $38,500 and $62,500 would be necessary to make a meaningful impact. Serving on Active Duty has plenty of advantages, and even offers some highly-desirable opportunities that you cant get anywhere else. Do that and fix quality of life issues. Subject to the needs of the Army, newly rated aviators should be used in operational flying duty positions immedi-ately after their successful completion of Army aviation flight training. Paste as plain text instead, Ironically, the reason why Congress established a limit on entry into flight training is because the Army in the late 60's and early 70's started to funnel relatively large numbers of maneuver General Officers through flight school. Gen. Michael McCurry, the director of Army aviation for the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff G-3/5/7,who said in September, One question I often get asked is, are the airlines impacting your shortfall? The same goes for great deals like going to Test Pilot School, flying the E-11A BACN, and much more. New ADSO order goes into effect 03JUN saying: "Hey, buddy, you wanna fly? While I really want to be an aviator, the thought of being TOTALLY LOCKED IN until I'm 34 is terrifying. I don't know if there are enough Officers getting out that would be willing to revert to WO to solve the pilot shortage, but maybe it would help.