M from Tree Hill author series presenting Diane lay back. But on the other side of that coin there is this sense that there have been so many sightings locally and you guys Patrick you might recall the name the Wyndham McCracken she kind of turned herself into a local authority off authorities the right word but she was very dedicated to this. Our guests today Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in. It all used to be based on measurable physical traits color, skull size, paw size, etc but now its based on whether an animal can be shown to be genetically distinct from others. Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. The great thing about pictures isn't the animal itself it's the background. So we're fixated on natural but there's other possibilities. 19 Current conditions in New Hampshire would support a mountain lion, according to Tate, as forests have returned, allowing for prey species to become more prevalent. Course like Sue said you have to see it and it's not always that visible. Peter Biello: Well Mike thanks very much for sharing your story. Some are included in lists of mountains, such as the Appalachian Mountain Club (AMC) list of the Hundred Highest peaks of New England, or the . He writes As a farmer I come across many outdoorsman looking to hunt our property had a conversation with one who believed very strongly that we had mountain lions in New Hampshire. I was a Bobcat we saw it and I have a picture of it. Patrick Tate: I don't believe it is. I think as Pat was saying you know 35 to 50 pounds on a male be reasonable range whereas mountain lions you're up to 100 110 maybe even 130 pounds on a big male. But I do think that it's appropriate that a fishing game agency would recognize verifiable proof if they could. Rick van de Poll: Yes. Updated: 9:53 AM EST Dec 6, 2016. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. Sam Evans Brown. Sam Evans-Brown: But I mean the video I had been sent was you know a recording of a animal growling but it was in slow motion and when I asked the person why is this in slow motion the denied that it was so there's a lot of weird stuff that happens in regards to people claiming they've seen they've seen these things. Are there Mountain Lions in NH? Today, their range stretches from the Yukon Territory in Canada along the western coast of the United States, all the way to the Southern Andes in Chile. The DNA the DNA that they were able to pull from the cat suggested that it was a dispersed mountain lion that came. Yes and you want to share what you learned. Author of The last woman in the forest on Saturday July 13th at 7 p.m. at Warner town hall Warner historical dawg. Tonight, Sean McDonald investigates,. Administrative Links. And I can recall its information but I can't confirm or verify anything. If youd like to submit a question (or send a mountain line photo) you can record it as a voice memo on your smart phone and send it tooustidein@nhpr.org, OR call our hotline, 1-844-GO-OTTER (1-844-466-8837) and leave a message. John if you're still on the line here I was going to I don't. I mean there was this one lady I remember and tough tomorrow. Peter Biello: Worth mentioning if we're scaring anybody question a mysterious mountain lions lurking perhaps in someone's backyard. Its impossible to say, but I think the odds are pretty good that some of these sightings are legit. So I did a bunch of research and all the documentation I found was there art are not any pieces of DNA of Eastern online. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. We are the second most-forested state in the country, and those forests can be impenetrable snarls (part of why the Northeast is notoriously a difficult place to hunt deer), and while there are people in a lot of those woods, because the cats have been absent for a few generations now, most of those people dont know what a cougar scrape or latrine look and smell like. The number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 so promised a discussion about conspiracy theories. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. And so far we have not had any positive mark lion scats or any DNA. And they asked me about the tail which I just did not remember that tail out of that whole experience. I actually been interviewed a couple of times by reporters and with all due respect for the media you know facts aren't always communicated correctly. I just stood there just a second and I came to a complete stop and then I ran away. Patrick Tate: No downward pressure at all I think actually Sean turned up and we found the evidence there a number of people would finally say finally we can put this debate to bed. And I saw you cat about four feet long from nose to tail come across from the water across the road and just leap over a six foot perimeter fence in a single bound. They kill big animals. Rick shaking his head so Rick now correct me please. I mean I that said I've lived out west for nine years. Mountain lions (especially males) have incredibly large ranges that they defend from rivals. We're not in the woods. OK. Rick van de Poll: Rick and I would add that if a mountain lion male takes up residence and successfully finds a female as pets there's gonna be a lot more evidence there will be like deer carcasses up in trees and territorial marking and claw marks and tracks and it you know dispersal is gonna be very tough to see or observed but residential parrots a totally different story. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. Peter Biello: So Patrick today Fish and Game no downward pressure on you to deny the existence at all costs of mountain lions here in New Hampshire. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an PR. Maps of Trapping Take by Town 1994 to 2004. A lot of times. That's next time on one day. Peter Biello: Ok weird question but do they make good pets. They lived perhaps elsewhere in New England and they were just passing through and happened to have an encounter of some sort. I don't know if she still is. Love hearing these stories. 235 or nhandy@ledgertranscript.com. I don't see the hoaxes anymore at that level. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. The females disperse a shorter range and once they find a vacant home range they stay in that location and live there. Peter Biello: I did mention four feet nose to tail would be kind of small for a mountain lion. I came to a stop and it was and I've seen a lot of bobcats in my time and I just came to a stop it was just sort of confused about what I was seeing. Have it reported down in the Keene area. The tail leave is a giveaway but not everybody gets to see the tail. What's interesting about Bobcats is here in the Northeast we have some very large bobcats. If you have them email exchange at an HP board or give us a call to tell us your story. He said matter of fact I do. Anytime at any HP broad dot org or subscribe to our podcast search Apple podcasts Google Play or stitcher for an HP bar exchange. Mountain lion or cat running across. Here it is. Having not found any evidence is not the same as saying there are no mountain lions, its the same as saying we dont know. Thanks very much. I mean so what what is the practical change that it would bring to New Hampshire if any. The second one was not only fresh but when I actually put my hand on it it was you know smelled like cat and I it's there's no denying a fresh mountain lions get if you can tell it every story that KOAT. I didn't see him online. They used to roam the entire continent, but have become extinct in most US states. List of Mountains in New Hampshire is a general list of mountains in New Hampshire, with elevation.This list includes many mountains in the White Mountains range that covers about a quarter of the state, as well as mountains outside of that range.. Absolutely. And today we're talking about the mysterious elusive mountain line with folks who know something about it. John. Rick your thoughts. So give us a call now. Despite numerous reports, the NH Fish and Game Department continues to have no physical evidence of mountain lion presence in the state. Caller: Oh yeah. I mean no doubt a seen Bobcat seen his stuff. Enable JavaScript by changing your browser options, and then try again. I'll send it to you. So I've been convinced the whole time that I saw a big cougar plume or whatever you want to call it standing there in the road in Greenfield. Verifiable pictures recorded by the observing person or a trail camera. Michael Brindley is our program manager our producers our Jessica Hunt and Christina Phillips and our theme music was composed by Bob Lord. You're on the air. Really appreciate it. And I I have this great text history of New Hampshire game and fir bears and I think by Helen Silver who used to work for fish and game and she sort of I kind eyes this animal in one of the quotes from 1892 stating that the catamaran was the most ferocious of all the wild beasts of New Hampshire his great size strength and agility of movement together with his formidable weapons rendered him the terror both of man and beast. So I would put this in the category of sort of like shark attacks right. We've met Fish and Game's BURDEN OF PROOF. On a dirt road. Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist thanks very much for being here this morning really appreciate it. Do you want to see real, living mountain lions that do exist in New Hampshire. The most common areas to see mountain lions in Arizona are in places of rocky and mountainous terrain. Peter Biello: But clearly you know you're saying like hoaxes people who claim to have seen a mountain lion but knowingly have not or are appropriating photos taken elsewhere of legit mountain lion say out West where they people acknowledge that they exist certainly knowingly or unknowingly in this case the person who sent it to me said hey a friend of mine sent me this photo and said he took it on his back porch also. So the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station has a database on mountain lion and they can identify. And I have to use that word allegedly because there is so much dispute about what people see and what they actually see. WMUR NH Chronicle Mountain Lions in NH Part I and Part II. There was a lot of DNA evidence. You've got you've got biologists right who are trying to make their make their way in the world make a career if you are the biologists who confirmed a sighting of mountain lions in the state that would be very good for you like you would be all over the news. Someone's got to see one they're very secretive. Ive received pictures of dogs at odd angles, says Tate. Select image for larger view. Nicholas Handy can be reached at 924-7172 ext. Kyle I think about Rick Tate wants to jump in here. Post your sightings and NH photos here! You could trace that was this same cat from point to point to point. He shifted gears in 2016 and began producing Outside/In, a podcast and radio show about the natural world and how we use it. His work has won him several awards, including two regional Edward R. Murrow awards, one national Murrow, and the Overseas Press Club of America's award for best environmental reporting in any medium. If so that's for us as an agency. Information online ad an age student loans dawg. Pat what do you think the mystique of the mountain lion. And they used to be this whole list of the different subspecies of mountain lion and it has since been reduced to just to the North American and the South American. So Pat you field a lot of calls about people seeing or reportedly seeing mountain lions. Patrick Tate: So I just got to throw a little interesting side note in this. Why are there so many false positives? How to Report a Possible Mountain Lion Sighting. They absolutely do. And here we're talking about in this situation we're talking about it migrated from the West. OK. Patrick Tate: So it's very typical. Tim Yeah. Patrick Tate: Okay. Caller: I got home to my wife that a gene that you should have seen the cat. Or years or so. Less successful males roam further. So there is definitely no downward pressure by anyone. I'm sorry go ahead you're on the air. But no proof was offered. SUE Morse naturalist and science director for the organization keeping track. Which which I think Pat and I have both experienced. Sam Evans-Brown: Pretty well I was going to say it is nice to hear about how to identify the facial markings but probably I'd being a to identify the tracks is probably the more useful useful tool that one can have in their tool box. They just end up in these places. As wildlife biologists, wed be fascinated to say 'look look what was found in our state.'. They create these scrapes where theyre communicating with each other with scent. Hunting is legal, but closely regulated by the state. Patrick Tate: So it's interesting it's brought up. You know one of the the biggest questions I have about that is it points to how much we don't know and if in fact we don't know enough. I have one that's more elaborate than that. Sort of dropped onto the SD card of a camera he'd set up out in the wild. Peter Biello: Yeah some of what she was saying sounds like it would require getting pretty close or at least having a nice zoom lens right Sam like. Rick van de Poll: Well I didn't. Caller: Well I think Patrick I recognized your name. Think you've seen a mountain lion? I looked at the picture and asked me what do you see in the picture and I wrote back. Have you seen one. If you believe you have seen a mountain lion and want to report it to NH Fish and Game, please contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. Your support makes this news available to everyone. You saw what you saw. Each person had their own copy and now it was identify the trees the species of tree matched. Share. The Connecticut Mountain Lion is the best documented wild Mountain Lion in New England. I would just suggest that in my experience as a reporter covering this covering this issue for a few years at least at what point do we reach a certain critical mass for lack of a better term of accounts where I'm not to suggest that you guys aren't taking this possibility seriously. Patrick Tate: Well. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. Early in the morning. There are mountain lion in Massachusetts. Get your tickets today and one for fifty dollars or six for 150 at NH PR and board. Well Is DNA the most reliable means we have of identifying whether or not what we saw is actually a mountain lion. Reports without physical evidence are not dismissed, however Fish and Game cannot verify a sighting report without physical evidence. We'd be inundated with scouts in the past when newspaper articles have been written about DNA and scouts. The way that we define species has undergone a revolution with the advent of DNA testing. For starters, part of the confusion might come from the fact that the eastern cougar was taken off the endangered species list earlier this year. Patrick Tate: So Cougar Mountain Lion katama. There's a lot of photographs that you can see that it's very clearly a tabby cat that someone has thought was a mountain lion. Peter Biello: So a little bit of nostalgia maybe for it for a better world embodied in the mountain lion. Peter Biello: So Rick seems like you agree that the tail is a big giveaway whether or not it's a mountain lion Absolutely. Peter Biello: Give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 you can also send us an email exchange at an HP morgue. Peter Biello: Today on the program Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist and far better project leader Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in which is about the natural world and how we use it. And you know all that. Is that typically what was happening there. Sam Evans-Brown: I just want to say the bang and word you just heard I think to me exemplifies why it's really hard to come up with with positive you know 100 percent certain evidence that you've that what you've got is a mountain lions. And so so with their limited staff and limited budget that is that is more and more limited every year because you know fewer people are buying hunting and fishing licenses. No I saw a camel. Well I can't tell you what you saw. Patrick Tate: My line being a large predator a cat watch ambush his prey animal that hasn't been. I'm Peter Biello in for Laura NOI. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. 50 feet above the most. support for an HBO who comes from you our listener Sam from advanced in you a local New Hampshire nonprofit specializing in college student loans and student refinancing options. For over 38 years the Saddleback Mountain Lions have offered people a chance to give back to their community. So do they. And really whenever you hear tiny code and long rope like tale it's kind of hard to pin this sighting on any other creature rather than an outline or just nothing else really matches that description. They don't know the direction they're going. Mountain lions leave a lot of sign. I noticed it had a really big sweeping tail that kind of curled up behind it and all but still at that point because everyone says there's no mountain lions here. So what counts as verifiable evidence? As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all. 1,470 likes. So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today. I've had a number of people call up and say I found a scout in the woods and I want it DNA identified. On Oct. 10, he gave a slide talk called "Wild Cats of New Hampshire," which included the bobcat and the lynx. New Hampshire Public Radio | Sam Evans-Brown: And when we talk about subspecies this actually leads to to an interesting tangent which is that the field of biology recently has been sort of revolutionized by the use of DNA to determine what subspecies are. So I hate the idea that there's some sort of upward you know downward pressure from the bosses saying Don't you know don't tell about the mountain lions because it'll scare away the tourists. He played a pivotal role and he battled for recognition. And still the the folks there did weren't able to come up with it with 100 percent certainty what deposited that scat. Patrick Tate: Yes. But I was riding a mountain bike not far from my house. Which brings us to the next question, what are the odds that some of these reported sightings (which, when I posted about this on twitter, I immediately started to get as well) are actually people seeing a mountain lion? Seems reasonable! One was in Shelton. What do you think that. Peter Biello: When did you allegedly see a mountain lion. So this whole illegal pet trade black market pro trade thing does does exist in a situation like that can happen. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. Is this kind of a typical story. Sue Morse: First and foremost if you have color or if you could see details of color look at the front of the face around the Pumas muzzle the muzzle itself is pure white. I found a second scat scent both to him. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. They're the generalists that made it through both the arrival of the Clovis people with their with their spears and then the Europeans with their guns. Peter Biello: Well hey Rob. Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? Chartered 1973; Member of District 44-H; . I believe I saw one that's fine and I'm not looking for an immediate story. Wed love to be part of the first verified sighting. So it's there was no question in my mind. The brother and sister big cats have lived . Mountain lions don't usually travel more than 100 miles from where they are born. The panther, Fells concolor, is a beast of many names, most frequently referred to in New Hampshire history as catamount, but sometimes known locally as "Indian Devil" or "Carcajou", under which . BRADFORD, N.H. - All that snow in parts of the Northeast has more than just kids jumping for winter joy. So Marty can you see what I'm getting at is the public sees different names and thinks that they're different animals but it's all the same animal. Second when I when they did forward it from Wyoming to to Michigan you know this was coming right from sample 18 and 19 had no remarkable differences from known mountain lions from Michigan or Wyoming. Caller: And then there's the Lily Pond Road and then there's a six foot tall fence. Patrick Tate: Yes. Right. So try to take photographs if you see something like this. DNA from scat or from fur, a clear track that is confirmed by an expert, or a photo that clearly shows a mountain lion. Fear for others and those two polarizing opinions on the situation is what I believe brings out mystique and Sam you know I take kind of a long view on this. Since 1917, Lions clubs have offered people the opportunity to give something back to their communities. Yet this young male traveled about 1,800 miles. There were several sightings in CT over the last few months. But before I go any further I want to say we do not have sufficient game. Email exchange it an HP fraud org or give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. She is renowned for tracking. And there are thousands of mountain lions killed every year legally through hunting, and there have been untold tens of thousands of mountain lions killed by hunters over the last hundred years, says Mark Elbroch, the Puma Program Director for Panthera, a global wild cat conservation organization, So even the folks who live with mountain lions still have a fancy and see something thats not there to me thats incredible.. So what I'm getting back is the verifying and confirming of evidence what that was not there. Sam Evans-Brown: And second the evidence required is is you know pretty pretty tough to gather. And I was probably about a half a mile from downtown all village on the right. Caller: So I've been telling this story for five years or so and very few people believe me. Good morning guys. Let us know your story and share your photos! Long before NASA was asked to put a man on the moon one engineer had already figured out how to get there. It's bigger but bigger and better world. And because you know things flow downhill and I was pushed to go investigate it more and met with the individual two or three times and there was a bunch of inconsistencies about the photograph. Infinite Scroll Enabled. He studied Politics and Spanish at Bates College, and before reporting was variously employed as a Spanish teacher, farmer, bicycle mechanic, ski coach, research assistant, a wilderness trip leader and a technical supporter. And what was really remarkable about the whole thing was I was maybe a half mile down on all buildings. That's what we're seeing is dispersing mountain lions from the West who are just making their way through. So when we talk about the threshold of evidence required to say for sure you have seen a mountain lion it is rather high. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HD PR fine Peter Biello and today we're talking with folks who can tell us about the mysterious elusive mountain line and whether or not it is actually here in New Hampshire. Thank you. It's got a a smudge of black and bobcats and links just don't have that we don't have any other cards. Listeners we'd love to hear some of your thoughts on this. Rick van de Poll: Absolutely. There was no sign of it. Less than a year later I found a scat on the swamp range and I was working at the time with a fellow at the Michigan wildlife habitat Federation. Patrick Tate: And there's one other way to model that is the same animal. Peter Biello: What about the idea of tourism like us leaving aside the fact that it is not on the Endangered Species Act is it. Well let me ask maybe Pat and Rick about this. Mountain lions remain an enigmatic animal for residents of New Hampshire, with New Hampshire Fish and Game reporting three to five sightings per week. NH Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate reports that so far, mountain lion reports accompanied byphotographs have been misidentified bobcats or housecats, or pictures of mountain lions taken from the Internet and reported as being recorded in New Hampshire. Thanks for your call. They get a lot of media attention but compared to the the amount of times that a mountain lion could attack a person but doesn't because they don't typically view us as prey. So so. I'm Peter Biello. About two years ago I was at the Laconia airport on the way home from the airport and there's a big lake on one side called Lily Pond. So here in New Hampshire when a person turns in something that the Department believes is possible mountain lion and believes it should be investigated further. Information that weed family automotive dot com sunny for today high temperatures low to mid 80s clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s tomorrow sunny highs in the upper 80s. Residents believe cougars still roam New Hampshire's forests. 10 things to do in NH this weekend: Dartmouth Dance, Hamilton De Holanda & more, Turkish restaurant in the Upper Valley aims to help those affected by recent earthquakes, RFK Jr. tells NH crowd hes considering a presidential run, Epping woman pleads guilty to threatening Michigan election official in 2020. Patrick Tate: I would say well when social media first started they picked up the hoaxes became much more prevalent in the last four or five years hoaxes have died down completely. Just one quick point I think I think when we we talk about these conspiracy theories the real story is that fish and game is an agency that that is short on budget and staff. Patrick Tate: Same here in New Hampshire too. And when provoked no animal could stand before him elegantly put. Somewhere the way they travel the things they do they're going to leave evidence. Thank you for visiting the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department website. Mike thanks for your call. And then just up behind it you know at about 11 o'clock on one side and whatever that would be on the other side it's black. And as the biologist who's gonna stand on this and if I'm going to say this is a proven picture I need to be able to stand on it so soundly and have the evidence so I going to go through it with a fine tooth comb kept picking pieces apart trying to answer these pieces. Caller: It had to be a mountain lion convinced I was about 30. Sam Evans-Brown has been working for New Hampshire Public Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer. I saw that had this giant the bobcat had this giant sweeping which is John Bobcat don't have big sweeping tails. We'll be right back. I can't tell you what you saw but it sounds like a mountain lion. I had a resident in New Hampshire tell me a story of a mountain lion in the 1960s where a person who would come summer in New Hampshire and then live in a different part of the country in the winter had a trailer that was housing his mount line. Pat humans people leave deer carcasses up in trees. So. Peter Biello: Well Karl Jarvis a former reporter for The King's son Nile thank you very much for for calling in and sharing your perspective and to his point Patrick T. I mean yes we haven't met the scientific burden of proof here in New Hampshire as far as physical evidence is is concerned but is there room at Fish and Game For A kind of an informal nod to all of the people who have somehow convinced themselves and possibly some others that yeah there may be occasional sightings here.
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